Fault of map editor or my fault?

  • I was not talking about making all roads the same, like the number of lines, sidewalks, curbs...etc. What I'm talking about is that between road crossings it's easier to use splines. If you have a road for example which is a bit complex (two sidewalks on each side, a separated grassy part between the roads, I don't know), and the road is almost the same for kilometres long (except a few parts), then what do you do? Place dozens of curbs and make everything out of polygons, or simply model one road, use it almost everywhere, and only do the needed parts separately ? That's what I'm talking about.


    The polygon tool itself is not buggy, actually I like it a lot (a tool like that would have been awesome in OMSI). But building complex roads on slopes or hills is not that pleasant (with polygons) and about 99% of the map builders experience a lot of holes on their map. Maybe it's not the editor's fault, more like the lack of documentation, if almost everyone do it wrong.

  • I was not talking about making all roads the same, like the number of lines, sidewalks, curbs...etc. What I'm talking about is that between road crossings it's easier to use splines. If you have a road for example which is a bit complex (two sidewalks on each side, a separated grassy part between the roads, I don't know), and the road is almost the same for kilometres long (except a few parts), then what do you do? Place dozens of curbs and make everything out of polygons, or simply model one road, use it almost everywhere, and only do the needed parts separately ? That's what I'm talking about.


    The polygon tool itself is not buggy, actually I like it a lot (a tool like that would have been awesome in OMSI). But building complex roads on slopes or hills is not that pleasant (with polygons) and about 99% of the map builders experience a lot of holes on their map. Maybe it's not the editor's fault, more like the lack of documentation, if almost everyone do it wrong.

    In my opinion the biggest problem with the documention is the non separation. It would be good if the developers will make 3 main topics: Lexikon for players, Lexikon for map creators and Lexikon for vehicle creators. And in my view it would be good if the English and the German translation will be next to each other in 2 columns. This will be transpalent and searchable for everybody.

    Like this:

    German English
    (!) System-Scriptfunktionen Scripting system


    And an notice:

    It would be good, if Lexikon writers can be understand: Most of them the players are not have IT qualitificon and knowledge. Some of the Lexikon posts are difficult to understand by avarage players and persons. The tutorial videos will be good for understand them.

  • Easier option than making an optimized game..

    Please share your great ideas, where we can optimize the game. I'm curious.

    No, not all the roads look the same. But there are hundreds and hundreds meter of roads where it is (on one place, in one street for example). Also, please tell me how the road isn't the same on all the pictures I can see in the forum. In the official maps, in the DLC, in the thread you posted...etc. All of them use mostly ONE road texture as polygon. Putting one patch texture around a kilometer doesn't make the roads unique.

    It is not the texture, it is the shape of the road. Is it that hard to understand? ?/

    It's hard to quote from mobile, forgive me.


    1. Well, you are the developer, not me, so you should know. There are games out there which works way smoother even the are finished and more comlex than LOTUS.

    A good start could be that the game could store only parameters of splines, so you shouldn't refresh your map every single time, and it wouln't be stored in the tile files, which could drastically decrease the size of maps. Also as Bz' mentioned, the tie problem would need a fix as in a Suburban Railway map I had to use a ballast texture that includes the tie to reduce the size and time to redresh the terrain. I have many other ideas, but many of them would involve looking at the source code.


    2. Where the "shape of the road" is different, we (Me and Bz) are also using polys, but when you have a 300m straight (or even worse, a curved :omg:) road, it's so much quicker to lay it down with splines, not drawing 8 or whatever times 50 meters polys (polies? IDK, sometimes I'm getting confused...)

    And yes, it's hard to understand you many times. We are not using translator, so the main problem is hidden in the grammar sometimes. We just don't understand what you meant, but it's not your fault, we are not perfect at all, but just don't get upset becausr someone has another way of thinking and just don't see the point. We, as creators would like to have a nearly perfect program, but we want developers who listen, not mute voices who don't agree with them.

  • If you have a road for example which is a bit complex (two sidewalks on each side, a separated grassy part between the roads, I don't know), and the road is almost the same for kilometres long (except a few parts), then what do you do?

    The two maps, I created, don't have such roads and for me it is annoying to change the program often, so I would prefer polygons. Sometimes I use sidewalk splines, but that's all.

    But building complex roads on slopes or hills is not that pleasant (with polygons)

    Can you tell an example of such a problem?

    Maybe it's not the editor's fault, more like the lack of documentation, if almost everyone do it wrong.

    The editor has some simple "rules" when using polygons. An example: If the Map Editor should merge the surface to one mesh, you can help the editor by placing your polygons "smart".

    A thing I recommend to everybody, who is creating surface splines, are "cutting meshes". These are very helpful, but in fact not properly documented. The conclusion is, it is more likely to get holes in the terrain when using the content beside the base content from LOTUS.

    1. Well, you are the developer, not me, so you should know. There are games out there which works way smoother even the are finished and more complex than LOTUS.

    ||

    A good start could be that the game could store only parameters of splines, so you shouldn't refresh your map every single time, and it wouln't be stored in the tile files, which could drastically decrease the size of maps.

    You can't change fundamentals of LOTUS. When you want to decrease the size of maps, you have to decrease the number of cuts in the terrain.

    but just don't get upset because someone has another way of thinking and just don't see the point. We, as creators would like to have a nearly perfect program, but we want developers who listen, not mute voices who don't agree with them.

    Well let's conclude this topic at all. Someone posted a screenshot with a road made of errors next to an huge amount of hours to create these errors. Then the discussion escalated quickly. I asked some questions and everybody was offended. In the end I'm tired of reading sentences like "Your source code is shit", "The program is buggy", "Give me 10 hours and I create a better LOTUS", "Other games work like a charm", "LOTUS is not complex, so why is the FPS low" and so on. And don't get me wrong, I'm just cynical, not upset. Maybe that is fallen flat when translating from German to English and from English to Hungarian.


    Last thought: My point was to provide the solution, the Map Editor is optimized for. Not changing anyones mind. ;)


    Greets

  • I prefer to we have these tutorials in PDF in the basic Lotus directory or it can be downloadable from the official website.

    And these tutorials must be have (every tutorial) Germany and English Languages.

  • But building complex roads on slopes or hills is not that pleasant

    I do not understand, why there should be any difference between building on flat subgrades or on sloped subgrades? While using curbstones, polygones or even road splines, the working steps are exactly the same?

    I prefer to we have these tutorials in PDF in the basic Lotus directory or it can be downloadable from the official website.

    And these tutorials must be have (every tutorial) Germany and English Languages.

    That's just a question of time. Should we spend it for AI, for performance, for MapEditor performance, for content, for debugging, for support or for the lexicon? I think, the best decision is which we had taken: Find a good compromise between all of these to do's.